Do you ever wonder what Childfree Life really looks and feels like?

Sure, there are the party days of your 20s & 30s (which we both crushed by the way!) but what happens when things start to "slow down" at 50?

Is fun still a priority? Does the worry about the elder years increase or decrease? Does regret set in or fade into oblivion? Is building community with new childfree friends possible?

We share answers and insights to all of this PLUS, wecover topics that matter to all of us- health and wellness, relationships, investments, career, travel and lots more!


What happens when you tell your family that you decided NOT to have kids? In this episode, we explore the positive and sometimes uncomfortable reactions that our childfree community has received when they break the no kids news.

We uncover a common lie that childfree people resort to when faced with relentless judgment or pressure. (Please comment if you’ve done this!) Plus, I share an example of one family’s heartbreaking reaction which is sure to leave you speechless.

Join us as we reveal Rick’s odd security mission during our hill country getaway and discuss the reason why we are both taking ice cold showers!

We invite you to join in on the conversation! Did your family have a positive or negative reaction to your childfree decision?


Rick: [00:00:00] We're all familiar with the over the top reactions to a pregnancy announcement, but what happens when you tell your family that you decided not to have kids? 

Veronica: In this episode, we explore the positive and sometimes uncomfortable reactions that our community has received when they break the no kids news.

Rick: We uncover a common lie that child free people resort to when faced with relentless judgment or pressure. 

Veronica: Plus, I share an example of one family's heartbreaking reaction which is sure to leave Join us as we reveal Rick's odd security mission during our Hill Country getaway and discuss the reason why we are both taking ice cold showers.

Rick: Let's get into it.

And here we go. Um, 

Veronica: hello. 

Rick: How are you? 

Veronica: I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm sorry. I cut you off. You were in mid thought. 

Rick: No, no, no. It's I just realized I said, how are you? And it's weird because we've already been seeing each other all day. So for me to ask you, how are you? How are you? I know, but I think it's 

Veronica: different.

I feel like when we do this, it's. Separate [00:01:00] conversation from how to 

Rick: say, how are you? When I see you on this, it just feels like a 

Veronica: whole different experience. Cause people have asked me before if, um, you know, you and I are just talking and then we hop on this, like, it's just more of the same. And I'm like, no, it's really different.

I don't know why. And I can't explain it, but yeah, me too. It seems like a whole separate. 

Rick: We can have this weird bubble separate conversation that we don't really prep for much. It really kind of comes off the top of the head. I mean, we have some ideas of what we want to talk about, 

Veronica: which 

Rick: I really look forward to.

And we never know where it's going to go. Yeah. Um, I just want to answer 

Veronica: your question. I'm doing well. Thank you. 

Rick: Oh, sorry. Yeah. Great. That's so good to hear that you're doing well. Very excited. As you know, uh, the theme in our community right now is health and wellness this month. 

Veronica: Yes. We're still in health and wellness month.

It's going really well. 

Rick: I think this is my favorite month out of all of them. They've all been good, but this has been my favorite. Um, we have a health and wellness captain within our community. Shout out to Mar [00:02:00] and I'm just really getting into it. I really, cause I needed to rejump my health 

Veronica: cycle. 

Rick: I've been a little bit.

Outta it. Yeah. 

Veronica: You've had some issues. You haven't been able to get to the gym, you're having some hip issues and, um, but all we moving, moving forward. Well, that's behind. Yeah. 

Rick: Mm-Hmm. We're moving forward and I went to the gym right before this and then I came up to shower obviously, and then I did the cold plunge challenge, my first, one of the three that we have to complete before the end of the week.

So to let the listeners and viewers, if you're listening, watching on YouTube, uh, the cold plunge is you have to sit under, you have to turn your faucet all the way to the coldest it will go. 

Veronica: Right. And 

Rick: you have to sit under the shower head for 45 seconds 

Veronica: or a minimum of 45 seconds. And just to be clear, obviously some people do have access to a cold plunge.

Some people do live next to a cold. Lake or river or whatever. So the challenge is pretty much just get yourself in really, really, really cold water, whatever, however that takes. And we're doing it in the shower. Yeah. But I have to say, I haven't done it yet. So you [00:03:00] did it just now. 

Rick: I just did it before this podcast and my levels are like.

Spiking. So I'm 

Veronica: a little bit like, I'm a fan of the whole cold plunge. You know, I was doing it for a while. I was doing infrared sauna and cold plunge. Um, I haven't been able to do it, but yeah, I definitely want to get back into that cause I really, really like it. So, so I 

Rick: have a question for you. We've been together for nine years.

Do you think. And maybe I'm just coming off of some positive energy from the gym, but do you ever see me with a six pack? Oh, you laughed. You laughed at that. Oh my God.

Veronica: No, I'm not laughing at the idea of you having a six pack. I'm just 

Rick: laughing. Well, I think that might look a little weird, right? 

Veronica: Well, just to, just to fill people in, when Rick and I started dating, I nine years ago, which is incredible to say. It's, [00:04:00] it's really insane to say that we've been together for nine years and we, you were on this big mission right after we started dating.

At the time I was teaching besides regular nine to five, I was teaching Zuba and I was teaching yoga at night. So I happened to be extremely fit and I think Rick was somewhat felt out of his element.

Rick: That's the word. 

Veronica: So, so you started going to the gym like crazy, uh, per the usual, became really obsessive about it. Yeah, you broke your leg, but that's a whole, yeah, that's a whole other thing. That's a whole other thing. 

Rick: But, 

Veronica: but, uh, right when we started dating, you were very much like, oh, you know, don't worry about my belly because there's going to be, you know, I'm going to be ripped.

Like, I need to, like, I'm going to have a six pack, like it's coming. 

Rick: It's Yeah, I literally was not 

Veronica: me saying it, by the way, or asking you, like, come on, you really need to lose a few pounds or you need to do this is all [00:05:00] you. So now fast forward nine years later, it's turned into like this big joke that 

Rick: now I have lost a lot of weight is 

Veronica: coming.

Rick: You met me when I was 230. Right. 230 pounds. And I'm now about 200. 

Veronica: Right. No, you did. You've seen a 30 

Rick: pound. 

Veronica: I have. But, 

Rick: I don't know if I can ever get to a six pack. Especially that I'm 52. I don't know. We'll see. Yeah. 

Veronica: We'll see. And it's not a, not a big deal either way. But, um, I have to get your 

Rick: initial reaction.

And I think that said a lot. 

Veronica: I wanted to also share what just happened early this morning because It was just so ironic. I had set up an interview with one of the women in my program. She graduated last year. And my program, by the way, it's, it's child free for me, the essential guide to exploring a child free life for women that are in the indecision phase of this process.

So, and by the way, my doors are open is child free for me. com. But so I have. Yeah, so I have, I was set up an interview with her because I really like to get the perspective about their personal stories because I think so many people can relate to [00:06:00] them and we had set up a call. We usually set about about an hour and to have these conversations and I went online and she wasn't there yet.

So I just sent her a text. I'm ready when you are no big deal. I'll be running late and she was like, oh my gosh. I'm so sorry I'm and she's nannying today. She doesn't nanny all the time, but she's nannying today She's like i'm trying to get the kids to nap and I said, okay, no problem 10 minutes go by 15 minutes go by 20 minutes go by she ties me She's like i'm still working on it And I said, you know, no problem i'm here and i'll just wait for you and then she comes on And it turns out she did not get them done for a nap and I can hear in the background Adam I said, what's in the background?

I hear like a very loud and she turned the camera and it was like some kind of Mickey mouse show and they're both, they're very awake, uh, one year old and a three year old, I think it was. And it was, so we start the interview and we go about not even a full minute. I [00:07:00] want to say we go about 35 seconds and I just said, 

Rick: Oh, why you don't think having a child-free conversations with kids playing in the background was, it's 

Veronica: impossible to do it.

It was so, I know. I 

Rick: know 

Veronica: loud. One of the kids grabbed a toy and started just banging it on the table, just consistently in a consistent rhythm, like a drum. And then the other one is just talking and then the TV's blasting and she's looking over at them and I was like, this is. It's just not going to work and it's completely fine.

You're just not in the right mindset right now to do it because she was just looking at the kids constantly. So we decided to reschedule, but I, I thought about the irony in the whole thing. We're going to talk about her choice to be child free and she can't have the conversation because she's nannying for two kids.

It's actually been a while for me to be on the phone FaceTime with anyone who has small [00:08:00] Children because my niece and my nephew are older. All of our friends now have older kids. So I had forgotten what it was like to have music or tv blasting kids in the background. So it was a, it was a, it was an interesting experience.


Rick: actually brought up something That I thought of, uh, it's a nice little segue here. Um, I have been feeling lately I'm going to see if I can make sure this makes sense to you. Okay, I have been feeling that More people that are close to me. I'm going to keep it broad good people that are close to me Are more upset that I talk about being child free than the fact that I didn't have kids 

Veronica: Interesting.

I think that 

Rick: they're more upset, I'm not going to say you, but I think they're more upset 

Veronica: at the fact that 

Rick: I talk about it as opposed to have done it. 

Veronica: I [00:09:00] mean. No, I don't know. I don't, I don't know if I, if you ask me, I don't know how my family feels about it. I don't think it's their favorite either. 

Rick: Yeah, we're 

Veronica: constantly having these conversations, but 

Rick: I wonder what that is.

I mean, where does, I mean, it's funny because, you know, I talked about this on other podcasts. I haven't really, I never really got that much pressure. It was almost like do what's best for you and so on and so forth, um, from family. Um, but it seems You know, we take this obviously very serious is what we do now and 

Veronica: right I think you know what it is I don't think it's that people Dislike it, but it probably makes them feel uncomfortable You know what?

It makes me think of it makes me think of uh, like brene brown when she says she's on the plane It's like what do you do? And she's like, oh I talk about shame or vulnerability or anything like that I think that Because this topic can be controversial at times, it really makes people feel uncomfortable.

So I'm imagining if one of your family [00:10:00] members says, Oh, my brother, son, nephew, whatever has a podcast and they ask, Oh, what is it about? They're like, Oh, it's about being child free. It might feel uncomfortable for them to, to share that information. Yeah, it 

Rick: actually happened to me. I was with my brother and he's his two kids, my Nephews were asking me like, you know, about, Oh, I have a YouTube channel because they wanted to start a YouTube channel.

I'm like, what's it about? And I'm about to talk to my brother's like, no, and I'm like, Oh, I guess I can't say that. 

Veronica: Yeah. 

Rick: I never told you that. Oh yeah. 

Veronica: Like 

Rick: shut me down quick. And I, and I, I respect that. I mean, you know, it's his kids. I don't want to throw something out there that, but I don't think he thought that they could wrap their head around it.

Right again, I mean we could go off on a tangent. 

Veronica: Yeah. Uh, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't um, Yeah, I didn't know that. I mean everyone can do whatever they want with their kids obviously, but I know that I remember specifically being at Your other brother's house with his wife and all their [00:11:00] kids and them telling All their kids, what we, what our youtube channel is about and then really my 

Rick: other brother.

Yeah, my youngest brother. Oh, okay. Yes. And then just 

Veronica: explaining, taking a moment, explaining the kids to their kids that we don't have children and that we do this to talk to other people who don't have children. And you don't remember this. It was hysterical actually because you were definitely there and your niece, she goes, well, that sounds like a better option.

Rick: So it 

Veronica: was a really cute moment. But yeah, I mean, to each their own. Not everybody feels comfortable with the topic. 

Rick: I get it. Well, I'm, I'm excited to get into today's topic. 

Veronica: Yeah. And it actually sort of blends in with him today's topic. Cause today we're going to talk about 

Rick: how that just happened. We didn't plan that.

As we talked about, it just kind of like flows. 

Veronica: Yeah. So today we're going to talk about the reaction from family, from parents, from friends [00:12:00] about the choice to be child free. And in our last live meetup with our community, we talked about it and everybody went around and shared what their experience was when people found out that, no, I'm not going to have kids.

Uh, and by the way, if anyone's interested in joining our team. Fabulous group of child free people. Uh, the chopper condition. com to get more info on that. So, oh, and another thing that sparked interest in this topic was that I read an article, it was either this week or end of last week, and it's called my children are child free and that's fine by me.

And I just thought it was a really refreshing take. So we're going to chat about that in a second as well. 

Rick: Great. I'm looking forward to that. Um, before we get into it, I do want to bring up one other thing because someone had a birthday. We had such a good time. We went away. I urge anyone to do this.

Who's listening just to get away like going out to dinner, just like try to get away. We did a very quick and easy and relatively cheap trip to Fredericksburg outside of Austin, Texas. And we Had a blast. We did. We [00:13:00] stayed at an Airbnb. Mm hmm. We can get into that because you know, it's not my favorite. And it's not because I don't like Airbnbs.

It's because I have a thing with staying in houses. I've been in condos for a very long time. And when I stay in the houses, I get I get freaked out. 

Veronica: You do. You're on high alert, high patrol, 

Rick: high alert, high patrol 

Veronica: windows, making sure you're basically basically You take on the duties of a security guard.

Rick: I'm just used to communal living. A lot of people being around me, I still feel the need that safety and numbers mentality. So when I go to a town, a small town, and we go to a house and we stay in someone else's house, it's completely freaks me out. I don't know if it's just too quiet. But I would love to know if anyone else feels this way.

Veronica: Yeah. I mean, I was the same for a long time. I'm not as bad as you, but I grew up in New York City. Well, I grew up in Queens. And so whenever I would see movies in the woods and there's a cabin and someone's [00:14:00] getting murdered, I couldn't Really relate to that environment because I didn't really leave the city.

So that always was super scary to me where someone who grows up in an extremely suburban area, uh, or maybe they're used to just having their home and then a mile down the road to someone else's home and they come into New York city that can feel really intimidated and scary for them. Right. So I think it probably is a blend of what we're used to growing up.

And then also the fact that you and I watch. Every murder show. I know. 

Rick: I know it doesn't help. I should say home invasion is what I'm a little bit more worried about. Like someone coming into the home. Yeah. Or the owner that owns the Airbnb is a little not, you know, they lose it and they're like, I just, I'm going to come in there and kill anyone that's staying in my place because I just freak out.


Veronica: No, I know. But I stayed 

Rick: up protecting us and we had a, we had a great time and we went to some wineries. So why don't you tell me. How your birthday went and if I [00:15:00] delivered. So thank you 

Veronica: for staying up all night and just freaking out and 10 and being the guard. I mean, I had a fabulous time. I love small little towns.

Again, growing up in New York city, everything's hustle bustle. Everything's very busy. I really love to be in quiet. Cute small quaint towns. I'm such a fan. I really enjoy just going to cute little coffee shops. I, as you know, I always set up everything for us as far as where we're going to get coffee, we're going to get dessert, where we're going to get a drink, where we're going to have dinner that so you don't have to worry about that.

How do you, how do you feel about that? By the way, that always gets set up for you. 

Rick: I mean, that's one of the reasons why I'm with you. You're just so good at it. I tried to front when we first met and might've talked about this before. Like I knew like, Oh, let me take you here and do that. And then it just stopped hard stop.

And you're like, no, I know how to plan and look at reviews for restaurant and like places to [00:16:00] go. And you just. Took the ball and ran with it. And I just kind of sat there and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna turn this into a learning moment as opposed to try to compete with you. 

Veronica: Right. Exactly. So although generally, right, I still get involved in the planning because first of all, I really like it and I enjoy it.

I really want to, especially if you're, if we're just going to do a short trip, which makes 

Rick: me bring up something. If I were to plan a 10 day trip, In Greece, would you trust that I could pull it off or would you want to be involved? 

Veronica: I would want to be involved. 

Rick: I knew it 

Veronica: Why do you feel that you could pull it off?

Rick: No, I just was curious if you yeah, 

Veronica: it's a 

Rick: challenge 

Veronica: for you Yeah, 

Rick: we'll get to a point where I can pull off a weekend. I think pretty successful Why don't we 

Veronica: start by you pulling off one night? 

Rick: Oh god I'm getting crushed today on this podcast by the way. 

Veronica: No, no, but we had such a good time I do have to say that it's been not weird [00:17:00] turning 48.

Like I don't feel paranoid about at this point, right? I don't feel like 50s around the corner because I got a lot of those comments like, Oh, 50s coming up or all these like, Oh, you're, you're late into your 40s. I don't feel paranoid about that kind of stuff. But I have had Several examples lately of how old I really am.

And I think that it's a little bit weird. Like just before this podcast we had in the background, we were just watching some YouTube videos and then we're just rolling. And this girl said, well, back in the day, and she was referring to the eighties, 

Rick: I 

Veronica: turned to you and I was like, Oh my God, the eighties are back in the day, which a lot of people listening or watching that might be back in the day.

For them as well, but it's just so that's what I'm saying Like i'm not like freaking out that i'm getting older But it is sort of just really settling into my mind Just my age in general that back in the day the 80s [00:18:00] when you know, I was a kid. It's like Ancient it's how we used to think of you know, the 1940s.

Rick: So let's get into the topic I'm excited about this one reactions from family members and friends We're opening this up to everyone right like general reactions for when you tell someone that you're going to be child free 

Veronica: Yes, 

Rick: and what that feels like 

Veronica: yes, so Well, there's, there's a, there's a step back, right.

That we have to take. Um, so because this is what we were talking about inside our community. I like 

Rick: that term, by the way, a step back, take a step back. 

Veronica: Yeah. Because does this choice need to be announced, right? Do you need to say, mom, Rick and I have decided to be child free. And it's a very. Sticky gray area because it's so different from announcing that you're pregnant or you're having a baby, right?

because when that happens Everybody is overjoyed and that's the traditional and that's what we're conditioned to believe when when that news comes in We've talked about it [00:19:00] here before That you're supposed to just be really happy and celebratory But as far as for me, it wasn't like I made this big announcement To my family, you know, I have decided moving forward.

I'm going to be child free and I don't think you did either right? 

Rick: No, no, I think that's new. I think people doing that it's kind of a new thing 

Veronica: and this also reminds me one of the other graduates of my program sharing with me that They and we have gotten this Quite a bit actually in our social media people saying that not only do they not make the announcement, but they lie to family members that They're infertile so that people will leave them alone and not put them put them on the spot and that they don't have to You know Just deal with it.

So that happens as well, which is unfortunate. And it's sad that people are at the point where they would just rather lie to their families because Of the pressure and the judgment that they're getting but it happens, 

Rick: you know, I took the age out method I just kept [00:20:00] pushing it back to the point where my mom was kind of like, yeah, you're probably Yeah, I think a lot of people do that.

I didn't come from a lot of pressure So it's not easy when you're getting the when when when on a daily basis, so 

Veronica: right Yeah Exactly. 

Rick: I have a lot of understanding and empathy for people that are going through that. And that's, that's really tough. 

Veronica: One thing is, so I was talking about earlier that I read this article and it was called my children are child free and that's fine by me because a couple of members from from our community did say my Parents didn't care my family didn't care and then some of them even said they were not surprised because i've been saying i didn't Want kids since the time i was four and i was i've been very vocal about it the whole time so Uh, it was refreshing to hear that and it was also refreshing to see this article and then this is a mom of two adult boys one of her Boys is 38 and the other one's 40 and she brings something up that I had actually never thought about.

She says that she is often interrogated as to why my children have taken the decision not to have kids. [00:21:00] So, 

Rick: so the mother is giving a lot of, 

Veronica: right. So I trickle 

Rick: down. Huh? Yeah, 

Veronica: exactly. So I was wondering, like, for example, like if your mom has ever told you that people ask her, cause my mom has, Oh, why doesn't Rick have kids?

Has she ever told you that? 

Rick: No, she never has. I mean, I'm sure she has been asked. I don't know what she said. 

Veronica: If 

Rick: she, you know, never asked her, I should ask her, 

Veronica: you should ask her. I asked my mom and she's told me a lot of people have assumed that I have, that I'm not able to have them, which is, 

Rick: I think that's pretty cool.

I think 

Veronica: that's the assumption there, but anyway, so this woman gets That question a lot. And she handles it really well because she, she talks about how, you know, both of her kids have made this choice and she hasn't even asked them why, because she figures if my kids want me to know why they made this choice, they would tell me, which is.

Amazing to hear from a parent. I know and then she said our role as grandparents [00:22:00] and she puts that in quotes Is therefore limited to cat sitting for their households and we are very content with that So this is really one of the first articles that I have read that are just so light And about this topic and where she's just explaining Pressing, this is just what it is.

I don't have a reason. I don't need to dig into a reason with my kids so that I can offer up a reason to the people who ask me it is what it is. And I thought that was really cool. 

Rick: I love it. I don't think you owe a explanation on a decision that you feel strongly about that you've thought through.

Right. You know, and I, I think that it's great when in this particular Circumstance, it goes very smoothly and it's welcomed and all parties understand and can communicate that to other people that are inquiring about it. But, you know, it does, like you said, it doesn't always go that way. I mean, do you have some specific things?

That you remember when you were telling, when you were finally communicating to [00:23:00] people that you weren't having kids and what they were saying to you about that decision? 

Veronica: Well, yeah. I mean, nobody was on board. You got 

Rick: everything under the 

Veronica: sun? Yeah, yeah. Nobody was on board with that decision at all. And I mean, 

Rick: not just family.

Not just family. 

Veronica: Yeah. I don't think that I ever really said said to friends, this is what I'm doing. I think that people just realized that I wasn't hopping on that bandwagon. Um, and then I have asked now, you know, in hindsight, what did you think? And I do again, get the answer that people just assumed I wasn't able to have kids.

I think that's a pretty common assumption. I have actually assumed that of other people myself. I have a friend when I was younger, she is. 10 years older than me. And she was the only person I knew who was child free. So when I was younger, I just assumed that she couldn't have them because I couldn't really, at the time, understand what this lifestyle was all about.

Rick: Yeah. I was talking about, um, I call it the feeling, the moment that you realize that there's something inside you that looks at a [00:24:00] traditional family or you see it in movies or you see it with friends or family or whatever, and you realize, I don't think I want that. And I remember having that at a very young age.

I looked at it as a countdown clock, right? I was like, okay, how long can I go before I have to make this commitment and have kids with someone? My partner. 

Veronica: Is it a countdown clock or was it a bomb that was going to go off? 

Rick: It was a, it was a countdown clock that led to a bomb. That's usually what happens before the bomb goes off at the clock.

So yeah, that's a better way to describe it. It was a bomb going off. 

Veronica: It sounded like it was. And 

Rick: I remember thinking. And I'm, my life's over, you know, this is where my life. It's less, it's never about me again. I mean, cause everyone said it's like, Oh, it's so beautiful. It's, it just becomes about them and it's not about you anymore.

And I just remember thinking that sounds awful. And I, and you know, and then I was like, wow, am I selfish? And so on and so forth. But my point is, is I'm getting back to that moment of the feeling, right? There's this [00:25:00] feeling that I had. And in retrospect, I wish I would have explored it because I just kind of brushed it off as like, well, I don't have a choice.

Veronica: Right. 

Rick: You know what I mean? 

Veronica: Yeah. 

Rick: And now I don't think 

Veronica: you knew to explore it. Nobody told you to explore it. Yeah. 

Rick: No, there was no child free connection back then. There was no social media back in the 80s when I, speaking of the 80s. Back in 

Veronica: the day, as the Grove said. Back in the 

Rick: day. Back in the day when I felt that feeling in the back in the historic period of the 80s.

Veronica: When you were in horse and carriage. Yeah, exactly. 

Rick: But it was that, it was that young. I mean, I was really young. I don't think I had enough confidence that I could actually do the job too. Yeah. I remember thinking like, I don't think I can pull it off. Not that I would be a bad father, but I just. I 

Veronica: get it.

You just, and also you just didn't want to, it just seemed like a lot for you. Yeah, yeah. The 

Rick: feeling. So I urge anyone that has that feeling. But that's okay. And just to explore it, having children is the [00:26:00] biggest decision. We say it all the time is the biggest decision you're going to make in life. People don't talk about that decision enough because it's baked in that that's just what you do.

Veronica: And it's a good point to bring up because we have heard from people that are listening to this podcast that aren't quite there yet with understanding if they want to be child free or not, and they're just exploring this life, which is what I do in my program, which is what you were talking about is that you didn't have the.

space to really explore it. What would life be like if I don't have kids? If I go in this direction, why does that feel like? How do I handle that? Uh, and all the fears and anxieties and stress maybe that you didn't have, but that other people may have to. 

Rick: Yeah. And I wish I did explore it because I think I would have planned my life a lot differently.

Veronica: Just to bring it back to people's reactions. I think that. It goes beyond people's reaction, because sometimes we get so caught up and what other people are going to think or say, and just their judgment of us, especially when it comes to that decision that it [00:27:00] drowns out what's actually going to happen, because we're expecting the worst, because we also have heard from people saying that They had so much anxiety to tell whatever person they told them.

And the person was either not surprised or, you know, just very like, good for you. Right. Uh, so we just don't know what's really going to happen on the other side. And if we do come from families that are extremely traditional and that are really expecting you to do it, um, you know, just take it with a grain of salt because at the end of the day, that's just their own personal belief system.

Rick: Can I ask you, I want to ask you a question. Feel free to answer it or not. When you're dealing with a program member that tells their parents and the reaction is so bad, almost the feeling of being ostracized from the family. Have you come across that yet? Where it's just so, so damaging to their relationship?

Veronica: Not exactly. Exactly that where they've been cut off or something. I have several examples, but this one just popped into my head So I'll share this one when we [00:28:00] started the child free connection We had a woman reach out to us who was really suffering in this space Right in the space where her and her husband did not want to have children but her family was pressuring her and just not willing to accept that this was the reality and and Unfortunately, she ended up getting cervical cancer and her mom and her family were telling her that that was God's way of punishing her for not having children.

So This stuff runs really, really deep. It's it can get awful. 

Rick: By the way, it's awful. It's 

Veronica: awful to fill in. The good news is that she was able to treat the cancer and and heal from it and the chemotherapy and everything. And she was getting better, but I was really happy that we were there to provide some support for her because they were shaming her so [00:29:00] badly and even through this really difficult time of her disease that she really had nowhere to turn.

I've heard so many stories and unfortunately, this is why I get so excited about articles like this that. To see the other side of it, because I definitely see more of the disappointment side of it and the passive aggressive side of it. And when 

Rick: an article comes out like this, do you see that as a reflection of progress in a sense?

Or do you think this is just a one kind of instance, random instance? 

Veronica: You know, people have been asking me that question a lot because there's just so much information coming up. But for me, what I am seeing is that it's. Being elevated in both directions. So just like there's information coming up of, you know, like this example, like, Oh, it's, you know, I'm happy.

They can do whatever they want. I'm also seeing an elevation in how could you not do this, right? This is not what a woman is meant to do. You're supposed to have kids. [00:30:00] You're supposed to get married. You're supposed to. So I'm seeing a rise out of. All areas. So to me, like I'm sitting back and watching all of this and really what's happening is just this intensifying, right?

And it's almost, and the divisiveness is still existing and the opinions are still existing. It's just really, really intense because there's so much information out there and it's so easy to get. 

Rick: Yeah, that is intense. What's the most creative ways you could let your family know that you're, do you hear anything like that?

Like a t shirt reveal? Like no kids for me, um, maybe a letter. 

Veronica: So maybe we can think about some fun and creative ways of making this announcement so that people who are listening can get into it and then can maybe share what they came up with, you know, in addition to like buying a cake or making a t shirt or whatever, I think that.

The announcement of being child free should be a thing. I think it should be just as important as we're getting pregnant. [00:31:00] 

Rick: So before we go, I do want to bring up a challenge we had in our community, which is take a picture of your nightstand without cleaning it up. 

Veronica: Right. 

Rick: And everyone contributed. I'm all of a sudden became obsessed with nightstands.

Veronica: Right. It was really interesting to see what everybody keeps on there. 

Rick: Yeah, yeah, it was. And I pride myself on a clean nightstand. And. You know, I gave you a little judgment. Your nightstand can look like a, like the Manhattan sometimes with all the different bottles and trinkets and stuff, but it's been looking cleaner lately.

So I give you a lot of credit there. 

Veronica: Oh, thanks. 

Rick: I'm sorry, geez. 

Veronica: Yeah, I really, you had said, you had said during the community meetup that mine was always messy. So I said, I'm going to take a picture of it right now because I hadn't done it yet. And then everybody can see what I'm talking about. And then I did right after we got off the call, I took a picture and I posted it and it's.

Not messy at all. Like it has like one or two items in it, but you're just very particular about things being [00:32:00] 

Rick: apologized on your post to the entire community. Well, here's my real whole theory on why it's important to have a clean nightstand. You ready for 

Veronica: it? 

Rick: It's the first thing you see when you wake up.

If you're, if your face is in that direction, it's the first thing you see. So 

Veronica: if you 

Rick: wake up to a cluttered nightstand, I feel like my day's going to be cluttered. 

Veronica: Okay. Food 

Rick: for thought. 

Veronica: No, I mean, this is fine. If that's your belief, I'll leave my nightstand out of it. 

Rick: All right. We'll leave it on that note.

Great talking to you and we'll chat soon. 

Veronica: See you next week. 

Rick: Bye. Bye.