Do you ever wonder what Childfree Life really looks and feels like?

Sure, there are the party days of your 20s & 30s (which we both crushed by the way!) but what happens when things start to "slow down" at 50?

Is fun still a priority? Does the worry about the elder years increase or decrease? Does regret set in or fade into oblivion? Is building community with new childfree friends possible?

We share answers and insights to all of this PLUS, wecover topics that matter to all of us- health and wellness, relationships, investments, career, travel and lots more!


In this episode, we unpack the relentless pressure that STILL exists within our pronatalist society to convince childfree people to have kids. We dissect the origin of these pesky pressures and offer some insight in how to shoo them away or support others to do so. 

Rick debuts his "poem writing" skills and reads a heartfelt-ish message for childfree people to enjoy. (wait till you hear ) We also share how we recently found ourselves sitting next to a couple with a toddler and how we reacted to their communication style. By the way- where are all the films celebrating a happy and fulfilled childfree life? The search is on!


Rick: [00:00:00] I am jacked up on coffee and ready for today's podcast. Oh 

Veronica: boy. In today's episode, Rick and I talk about the pressure that still exists to try to convince people to have kids where those 

Rick: pressures come from and how to shoo them away. 

Veronica: Yes, get rid of that. And we also share a recent experience we had while sitting next to a couple with a toddler in one of our favorite restaurants.

We wonder why people are walking around our building in robes and jammies. And Rick reads a cannot miss poem he wrote for all of y'all. 

Rick: I can't wait for y'all to 

Veronica: hear it. Let's get into it.

Rick: Here we go. Happy Valentine's day week. 

Veronica: Well, happy Valentine's day. Right. Well, we're 

Rick: recording this on Valentine's day, but it. 

Veronica: Yes, when they're listening or watching, it won't be, but, um, yeah, happy, in the U. S., happy Valentine's Day. In [00:01:00] the U. S. Yes, and, uh, yeah, interesting holiday. I think I've always felt very specific about Valentine's Day.

I don't even know if you know this, but I actually just sent out, um, a newsletter saying this, that for me, and this is 100 percent true, since I was younger, I would always make it a point. For valentine's day to be about self love so that regardless of whether I was in a relationship and even if you're in one, maybe this day pops up and things are not going well or you know, whatever the situation may be, I always thought about this holiday as a day of self love and I've always intended to celebrate it that way and I've never really been, you know, me, I'm not the girl that you're going to With rose petals and the whole thing.

But, uh, I still like romance, but just not that type of romance, but yeah, happy Valentine's day. I mean, I'm so excited to celebrate it with you. [00:02:00] 

Rick: Yeah, no, I really, I really liked that. I remember you telling me that before that you, um, talk a lot about how self love is important. That was really confusing to me in the beginning of our relationship because I was brought up to believe like you, you know, you love everyone else and you take second seat.

Right. In the love department. Right. 

Veronica: I mean, I was too, right? But it's a matter of deconditioning all that. Yeah. 

Rick: Because I felt like I was being selfish if I didn't love more than I love. But you have to, it's that old airplane metaphor I brought up a couple of times. You got to put your mask on first before you can help others.

So you need to love yourself first before you can love others. Right? Yeah. I mean, that makes 

Veronica: sense. Yeah. Absolutely. So we're doing that 

Rick: today. I have a surprise for you. So I'm not taking credit for this, but I, I wrote into chap GPT, write me a poem. So I want to read it to you. You ready? It's for the, it's for the child free community.

Okay. I'd like 

Veronica: a Valentine's day. 

Rick: Yeah. I mean, just in the spirit, it's a poem. It's a poem about being child free. Okay. You want to [00:03:00] hear it or yeah. Yeah. Okay. Here we go. 

Veronica: Okay. 

Rick: I'm ready. I'm going to, I'm going to say it like deep into the microphone so everyone can really listen in on that. Excuse me. Here we go.

No diapers to change, no tantrums to bear, just freedom to roam without a care. No bedtime stories? No toys on the floor, just us two, enjoying life and so much more. No school runs or parent teacher chats, just lazy mornings and endless naps. No worrying about college fees, just living life as carefree as can be.

So here's to us, living life our way, with no kids, to ruin our day. Just laughter and love, hand in hand, living child free. Oh, so grand.[00:04:00] 

Happy Valentine's Day, everyone that's listening, even though it's two days after and we're You like that? Interesting. 

Veronica: I 

Rick: thought it was a good way to start the podcast today. 

Veronica: That's hysterical. Thank you for that effort. You're so welcome. Typing that request into the 

Rick: prompt. Yeah, I blame it partly This is why we don't 

Veronica: use, uh, for our content, necessarily.


Rick: this is exclusive. 

Veronica: I mean, for these gems, we should be using Yeah. GPT all the time. 

Rick: Yeah. But this is exclusive. This was, I was exclusive. We're not putting that up on social. This 

Veronica: is exclusive. Right. Yes. Thank you for that. Part 

Rick: of that came from, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like freaking out today, so I'm a little bit all over the place, so forgive me in advance.

I think it's because today I mixed my coffee with my protein shake and I forgot. So I was like chugging my [00:05:00] protein shake and now like my brain is just moving too fast. So I, that's, I 

Veronica: don't know what you mean. You drank both? 

Rick: I I, yeah, like I had my protein shake and my coffee separate and I'm just like, Oh, I'm sick of like going back and forth drinking from two different cups.

So I just poured my coffee and my protein shake. 

Veronica: Oh, how did that taste? 

Rick: It tastes good actually, but it, it completely jacked me up. 

Veronica: Oh yeah, we don't need that. We do not need you extra jacked up. That's the last thing we need with you is for you to be extra jacked up. So hopefully in the next hour or so we can, uh, Chill out a little bit for sure.

Rick: We'll chill out. I want to hear, well, do you want to talk about what we're going to get in today? But I have a couple more things, as we know, on this podcast, we like to talk about the plus, about our lives, about what we witnessed, kind of everyday nuances, free. 

Veronica: Lifestyle. 

Rick: Yeah. Lifestyle. Everything. But we also like to cover a topic that's important, uh, for those who [00:06:00] are listening.


Veronica: So today we're going to talk about, and this has come up a lot in the past couple of weeks, just the general overall intense amount of pressure that everyone has to have children. And we're going to just dive into the Dive into that a little bit. Where does this pressure come from? What can we do about it?

Maybe some tips to deal with it? Uh, and I think yeah I think it's beneficial to us all because regardless of where we are in the spectrum whether we've made this choice from day one Whether we struggle to make it whatever it is there is It's just this pressure that is constant. And I think that even though if we can, you know, we get to a point where we can ignore it, but I think that it's important to still be aware of it, even if you're past where you're just living your best child free life and you can ignore the pressure.

Because there are thousands of people out there who are trying to live the shoppy life and don't feel the same. And the more informed and the [00:07:00] more educated we are, the more we can just spread the positivity, spread the love and help out other members of our community. 

Rick: Yeah, pressure is a tough one. I mean, it's stressful too, right?

I mean, yeah, dealing with it on a daily basis for those who are struggling in that area. So, yeah, no, I'm really excited to talk about this topic today. It's it's going to be great. Um, speaking of pressure, I also you. We also recently witnessed pressure on the other side of being child free, which was the pressure of containing your child when in a restaurant.

Do you want to tell the story of what we witnessed? You know what? Do you remember what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, Because, because that to me, I felt their pressure of like when you're in a restaurant with your child. Yeah. Yeah. Just maintaining that whole thing. Well, it's 

Veronica: more. It's a lot of work. It's not so much pressure.

It's anxiety. I mean, it's anxiety. I think you were picking up on, on the anxiety. So we're out to dinner. A couple of nights ago to one of our favorite [00:08:00] places here in Austin. And we were sitting at, um, a booth. So Rick was facing me and I could see what was going on behind him, but directly behind you was a couple with a toddler.

And there was a lot going on at that table as far as them speaking to the toddler in, first of all, they were speaking to the toddler in that baby voice. And it's really interesting because I know that really irritates you, but I find myself doing it. Like if I see a two year old and I start talking, you see.

Just start picking up that ridiculous voice. I don't know why most of us do it, but it's true. So the parents were speaking in that baby voice along with the baby. And that was driving you nuts. 

Rick: So I personally think there should be an age cap on speaking baby to babies. 

Veronica: I agree. I don't think we should even do it at all, but I don't know why, again, we're probably just conditioned to, like, 

Rick: With my nieces [00:09:00] and nephews, and if you're listening, you have nieces and nephews, I think, and I'd be curious to know what people think.

Yeah. But I think, like, after three, your baby, the baby, because I get it. If it's a baby, it's, you know, you want to be, like, friendly, and your voice changes an octave a little bit. Yeah. But after that, Their brains are developed enough like you'd want them to start hearing a regular voice, but by the way, we know 

Veronica: nothing about this, so I don't know what we're 

Rick: supposed to do.

That goes without saying, this isn't a baby podcast, obviously. When it comes to parenting advice. Yeah, yeah, but our point is, is that it drives me nuts when. It's happening in public, right? I feel like at any age, the whole like a boo boo boo, like that whole thing is just too much. And it's, it's embarrassing.

Like, I'd be embarrassed if, if, if I had a kid and I was talking, I don't 

Veronica: think, babe, I don't think you understand. Like, you're not thinking about other people. Like you're just trying what they were doing. Cause well, you didn't see it. Cause the toddler was like [00:10:00] hopping over each them, switching to the other seat, hopping.

He was standing the whole time. Jumping up and down in the chair. So it was really hard for them to manage. So the last thing that they're thinking about is what you or I think, but yeah, 

Rick: we just thought it was funny. If you're in a restaurant, don't you think you should be cognizant of people around you and your surroundings?

Veronica: hundred percent. I'm 

Rick: just saying. Let's get into that. Why do you think it is? Why do you think if you have a kid that like you don't care about anybody else? Well, I guess 

Veronica: you don't care. That's not what I said. I just said that your mental capacity is less because you have other stuff going on. So maybe you don't have 

Rick: cut.


Veronica: Because you're trying to get this kid to sit down. You know, that's what I don't know. Anyway, I'm just guessing. I have no idea what goes on, like completely clueless and what goes on in a parent's mind. But I can guess, right? Um, so anyway, so they were driving you nuts. And It was at one point, the mom went to the restroom and he was [00:11:00] just, it was just getting worse and worse.

And it was just funny to see you watch because you just looked over at me and said, I can't, I wouldn't be able to do this. Like I can't, 

Rick: I want to be, I want to be clear that the kid wasn't driving me nuts. It was the parent and the situation that was driving me nuts. The kid was just being a kid. I don't blame the kid.

It was the way it was handled. But again, We don't know anything about that, as you would say. 

Veronica: Exactly. Exactly. We just kept to ourselves and just kept it moving, but it was just, you know, we have these situations all the time and we understand that things happen, but these are what we call moments of gratitude.

Rick: So speaking of dinners, I have a question. I, I'm today years old with Galentine's Day. Is that new? I've never heard of Galentine's Day until, like, last night when you told me you were going out to dinner. 

Veronica: Really? Never heard of it. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it's been around for a really long time. I have no [00:12:00] idea how long, uh, but yeah, it's girls getting together.

And I think originally it was supposed to be for, and I could be totally wrong again. I don't know. for perhaps women who were single and just enjoying their own lives. I wanted to get together with their girlfriends the night before and do a girl's night. Um, but none of us who went to dinner are single, but we still wanted to, of course, enjoy a Galentine's Day dinner because I think right now it's for everybody.

So we did that. It was so much fun and It's interesting because, Rick loves to get a full download when I go out with my friends. The second I come home, he's waiting for me and he wants all the stories, the details, and he has a million questions. And I'm not really good at it because, first of all, I have a crappy memory.

So by the time I get home, I don't even know half the stuff that we just talked about. [00:13:00] But what happens with us is that I'll start getting spurts of memories as the days goes by. So maybe four days after I go out with my friends, I'll say something like, Oh, did you know that so and so bought a new condo?

And he's like, 

Rick: It's like, that is so top of 

Veronica: mind. You did not tell me this four days ago. And I'm like, I just thought of it now. So I did make an effort at our Galentine's Day dinner to try my best to remember certain topics so that I can share with you when I came home. So how did 

Rick: I do? I, I did notice a difference as far as information coming in.

I do appreciate that because I do. I just, wow, I must really be bored if I just need to like live vicariously through your girl design. Now I just realized that 

Veronica: it's a problem. No, that's not true because when you go out and you come home and I'm home, you give me the full download and you give me probably more than I even care to know.

And I don't. Really even ask it's opposite with us. Like you just come and like [00:14:00] load me with like all this, all these tales and stories, which I really appreciate, but you know, we're just different. 

Rick: I think it's my OCD. I think I just need to like get all that information and then move on. Like, okay. You had fun.

So and so is buying a condo. Everyone's doing well and healthy and got to get all that information, but you'd like drip it out over the course of a week and you'll be like, Oh, that was at the Galentine state dinner. And. So and so is moving out of Austin and they're not gonna be our friend anymore. And I'll just be like, what?

And it's, it's just, it's like, you can't, you can't hold that stuff back. I know, I know. I'm working on it. I'm working on it. Well, I appreciate your effort. Sorry. I gave you a lot of credit for last night. It was nice. It was like a whole moment. 

Veronica: I know. I know. I worked out at it. Um, okay. So very exciting. We had our preliminary talk with our travel advisor.

Um, for so inside our membership community, everybody's just getting so tight. I mean, it's just a big family in [00:15:00] there and people want to go on a trip and we didn't really know where to start. And luckily one of the members of our community saying hello over there to Samantha. She, um, it's. Was willing to have a call with us and just help us figure out like, how do we even, we, how do we even begin?

Because the members inside our membership community live all over the U S all over the world. And it's just kind of a complicated process, but the good news is, and we even, we haven't even told my members yet is that we did step one. So I'm just celebrating step one. There's a lot of. Moving forward. But I'm really glad that we got that call in this week because I'm really excited to, even though a lot of our members see each other in person, uh, we haven't met most of them at this point.

Actually, we have, um, Nadia and her husband from our community. They will be in Austin this weekend. We're having dinner with them on Saturday night. So I'm super excited about that. And if you have no idea what we're talking about to our friends that are listening or watching, um, [00:16:00] just go to the childfree connection.

com and you can learn all about our membership. community there. And then also the last thing I want to say is that I have today officially opened the doors to my program is child free for me. Uh, the essential guide to exploring a child free life for 

Rick: congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. I'm very excited about your March 

Veronica: group.

I'm excited too. I'm almost done with my January group and they're just so incredible. I love them all. And, uh, yeah, so just wanted to make sure that everybody knew there's only 10 spots. They go fast. So, uh, you have nine now is child free. Yeah. You only have nine spots. Yeah, that's true. I have nine now because I already, right before this call, I um, I already had someone grab their seat, so is child free for for that?

And yeah. So, 

Rick: yeah, no, I'm excited. It's, it's so much fun. Even though I'm not directly involved with the, is Child Free for Me program because it is for only women. I do get to hear little bits and pieces of the progress that these women are making as far as, you [00:17:00] know, you know. Putting aside some of their fears or confusion about the child free life.

So it's really fun for me to watch that. And I learn a lot too. Maybe one day you could do one for men. Maybe one day 

Veronica: you can do one for men too. Oh, right. Probably. Cause you're all, your brains are different. 

Rick: Oh, yeah, but you understand the male brain very well. I will say that. Um, before we get into our topic today, I do have one other thing because I was talking about coffee earlier.

This is something that, um, I noticed and I wanted to get your take on it every once in a while. I got to these observational things. So in our building, we live in a high rise building. I am noticing more and more that people in the building are neighbors respectfully. Are going down to the coffee area.

We have a coffee machine in the building on the 11th floor and they're going down in their pajamas, robes, sometimes like, like full on robes. Don't [00:18:00] know if they're wearing pajamas underneath, slippers, hair up in a bun. That's fine. I won't, I won't fault the hair. I get that. What is your take? I just, to me, I.

Maybe I'm old school, but it just feels a little uncomfortable. Like when I see it, I don't know. It's just like, I don't need to see like slippers, like, you know, throw in a pair of sandals, maybe in the pajamas, like throw on a sweatshirt. Like, do I need to see the matching tops and bottoms and the robe with maybe nothing underneath thoughts?

Veronica: Well, I think that, by the way, I have gone down there in my pajamas so many times, but I have, my pajama bottoms look like pants, like athleisure pants, for the most part, and then I always put a big sweater or a sweatshirt 

Rick: over it. I'm talking blatant, like that little, like, shuffle that 

Veronica: people Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

Okay, there's I think what happens is that our coffee area is, I think that sometimes when people are visiting our building, they think it's a hotel [00:19:00] because of the way that the amenities are laid out and it does have a hotel feeling and we do have some guest suites near the coffee area. So those are guests, but I know exactly who you, you're specifically talking about.

And I did some. Just research on this person and it turns out that she just recently moved into the building. She's a new resident and she doesn't do it anymore because I saw her twice. Um, either today and yesterday or yesterday and the day before and she was clothed. And I think that because she was new, she just came down to the coffee area thinking like, Oh, this is something I can come down with every morning with my jammies on or in a robe.

And then she quickly realized that it wasn't the case. So I think that's what happened. 

Rick: But wait, you said, that's fine. Like, thank you for looking at why you looked into it. Um, 

Veronica: I just, I didn't really look into it. I didn't make a call or anything and I didn't Google it. I just observed. Yeah. And I observed.

Okay. [00:20:00] 

Rick: So we back up, you say that is okay to do in hotels because you said people think it's a hotel, so they do that. I think that's worse. 

Veronica: Oh, yeah, that's true. I'm trying to think. God, we haven't been in a 

Rick: hotel in a while. I know. We need a trip. All right, let us know in the comments. Is it okay to walk around a hotel or your apartment building in your jammies 

Veronica: or in a robe?

Yeah, I 

Rick: think it's perfectly fine if you live in a house to go out and get the newspaper or the mail in your robe. Totally acceptable. I'm sorry. I'm 52 everyone. I mean, come on. I'm just thinking of Tony Soprano, because he always went out, if people remember that show, people went out, he always went out and got the newspaper, 

Veronica: he always went 

Rick: out and got the newspaper in his robe.

Oh, my God. All right. Let's move on. Yes. I'm crashing and burning here. Another eighties, another eighties reference. Pop gun. [00:21:00] All right. So, 

Veronica: so basically, um. Yeah, and because I'm, I'm, I'm working with the women in my program right now, this idea of getting back to pressure, this idea of pressure comes up a lot and what we hear and people DMing us and sending us questions is Well, I don't feel pressure from anyone, this person is supportive, that person is supportive, but they are driving themselves completely nuts.

So they start questioning, what, uh, who's going to take care of me when I get older? What if I regret it? What if this is the big mistake of my life? Uh, what if I die alone? What if I end up alone? What if nobody can take care of me? So they just end up going, even though the decision has been made, or at least You know, mostly made, um, the pressure that we put on ourselves is really detrimental to living a joyous and fulfilling child free life because you're [00:22:00] not at peace because you're just like ruminating and driving yourself crazy, which is the entire core of my program.

But I just wanted to bring it up because I think that people are like, well, no one else is pressuring me, but self pressure is. Oftentimes can be even worse. I don't know if you had, you felt any self pressure. 

Rick: No, no, no. I think it's a great way to start is you, the whole you thing. Most of us will create a lot of internal pressure on our own, whether that's about the child free choice in this particular instance or a million other things, right?

We just really put this pressure on ourselves. It gets very overwhelming and then it translates into confusion. The minute you start doing that, I completely agree with you. I think clearing the mind and really focusing on like, okay, before I start blaming other people or society or, uh, my partner or whoever, when it comes to the child free choice, what do I want?

Like what is going on so I can relieve some of that pressure. I think finding [00:23:00] clarity on your own decision is so crucial as the first step in this process. Would you agree? You, you know, a lot more about 

Veronica: the first step. That's the whole basis of the program, because if you can't find, if you don't feel clear and have the right information and the right tools and resources to make an informed decision, this.

Pressure is going to just drive you insane and you're not going to be able to release that. So, super, super important to be aware of self pressure and not just on this decision to have kids. I mean, I think we apply pressure to ourselves to make sure that We do well in our careers. We apply pressure on ourselves with the way that we look and how people perceive us.

So there's all these things that we apply pressure. But when it comes to this decision, um, I just keep seeing it more and more often that the pressure is actually coming from within. So I wanted to make sure that we talked about that. All right. So before we move on, I need to change my shirt. So 

Rick: what do you 

Veronica: need [00:24:00] to change your shirt because I am so hot right now, the sweater is so warm and I was freezing before and now I'm sweating and I'm uncomfortable.

So, oh, yeah, 

Rick: yeah. Change your shirt. This is a long podcast. Change your shirt. Okay. She's back with a new shirt. That was the quickest change ever. Thanks to editing. That was cheesy. 

Veronica: Okay. So now I'm lost, but I think what I was going to go into was, um, the second source of pressure, which is our partners. And this one is huge.

And it also ties into the whole, we talk about it all the time, dating while child free because it gets It's so tricky to go out there and meet people that also do not want to have kids. And we talked about it before, but the reason it gets tricky is because some people are not ready to bring it up early on in the relationship.

And what happens is they fall for the person and then X [00:25:00] amount of time goes by. And now we're in a situation where. They need to make this decision and one of the two people needs to, um, maybe do something that they don't want to do or feel pressure to do it. And it just gets really complicated. 

Rick: Why do you think it's so hard to bring this up?

I never struggled with that. Yeah. But you 

Veronica: were never saying, I'm child free when you were meeting 

Rick: women. Well, no, because I didn't really understand it. I just assumed I would've Kids, we won't go down that rabbit hole of my 

Veronica: journey. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If that, 

Rick: but Yeah. But if you're certain Mm-Hmm.

If you're certain you don't want kids, do you think, and this is a question I'm not. I'm not stating anything. Do you think women or men still struggle with bringing this topic up? If they do, when do you think they should? Is it the first date? The second date? The third date? I'm like, this process is intriguing to me.


Veronica: here's the thing. There's different examples for, so example number one is you have the person who's always known that they don't want to have [00:26:00] kids, right? So there was no retrospection. There was no thought like there was no. journey that they had to go on of self discovery. They just have always known.

So when you feel that way, when you're so grounded in this choice from day one, it's very easy to vocalize it because it just is, right? There's no alternative. There's nothing influencing you. Some 

Rick: people still struggle to vocalize it, even if they're certain, correct? And that was my question. Well, that's example 

Veronica: number two, which I didn't get to yet.


Rick: I tend to cut Veronica off for those who don't know this already. Example 

Veronica: number two is a person that is either leaning towards this choice or has made this choice but is not grounded in their decision, is still looking over their shoulder thinking, uh, am I sure? What I like to refer to it as when I talk to them in my program is, you know, I'll ask them, like, is your door shut?

For example, to not having kids. And the door can be sealed, shot, [00:27:00] welded. It's never opening no matter what. But what happens to thousands of us is that the door is cracked. Sometimes it can swing open and it just gives us opportunity for confusion. And when we're confused, you're on a date. It's really hard to just confidently say, I don't want kids.

You're not even sure about your own reasons. You're still having your own doubts. So it gets really messy and it gets really complicated. But to answer your question, my advice is always to do it as early as possible. If not date number one, date number two. 

Rick: I'm a little confused. So if you are unsure, are you saying that you shouldn't bring it up at all?

Because you look like you're waffling in your decision making just in general. No, no, you're not saying that. 

Veronica: No, no, I'm not saying that. I am saying that it's harder to be like, yes, I'm child free for someone who is [00:28:00] not solid and grounded in their decision, but they should still bring it up. It should still be discussed.

Because you do want to know where the other person stands because 

Rick: how should they, how should they bring that up? If they're confused, do they just say, you know, and again, I know you've done the research around this. Yeah. Is it just one of those things where it's just like, Hey, I just want to be forthcoming that I'm still going through the process of discovering whether I want to have kids or not.

I'm not sure. Yeah. Any of 

Veronica: that. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Or I'm really leaning towards not having kids. I'm wondering where you stand on that. That's another way. That's clear. Yeah. Um, so I mean, it's just a really common, this topic is so hot right now. I don't think that, I mean, it might take some people back, but it really just depends on who they are, but that's just one part of it.

The other thing I wanted to bring up is the pressure that, and we've talked about this from you because. Oftentimes, and I see this over and over and over again, is that one of the partners, and I'm going to be honest, it's usually the man, says, [00:29:00] it's up to you. And it's up to you as a form of pressure, because it's up to you means that I'm going to carry all the weight in this decision.

I'm super nervous about. I already am not a hundred percent on figuring this out for myself and now I have to figure it out for you as well and carry any of the feelings that come along with it. So if you're waffling later on because you didn't make any effort and take action to be solid in your decision, I have to be responsible for that.

So it's just way too much pressure to have that laying on your shoulders from your partner. 

Rick: I was going to say just you do it really well when I say it's up to you. You go. No, it's up to us. Yes, like you're very about everything that way about everything. Yeah. Yeah. So you're like, it's up to us to figure this out.

So don't try to, it's almost a little bit of a kind of escaping and you're right. It's so weird for a decision that large for you to say. Right. It's, it's up to [00:30:00] you. I'll go along. It's almost complacent in the sense of that's, that's a big decision to just be complacent about. Right. 

Veronica: But the thing is that over time it almost has shifted to a place where it's allowing the man to say, and I'm, I'm sorry, I'm just saying men because that's all the examples that I have personally known and read about, but I'm sure that this isn't always the case.

So, to say, you know, this is, this is your body, your choice, it's up to you, I'll go with whatever you want, and it sounds like it's coming from a place of love, and I think that oftentimes it can be, it's coming from a kind place. But that still does not make it okay for the partner to remove themselves from the final decision.

And if your partner can't come into the conversation with, you know, more than, well, whatever you want to do, I'll do. It's just not a healthy way to start this child free path in a loving and fulfilled and happy way. 

Rick: [00:31:00] Yeah. And for men that are listening, I also say it is your responsibility to really know your truth when it comes to this decision, because I'm guilty as charged of saying, you know, if you want a kid, sure, I'll have a kid, not knowing that I really didn't want one because I never really explored that and how unfair would that have been to, you know, what kind of resentment might've come up during the course of our If I was, you know, resentful about the fact, Oh wait, I didn't want this kid.

Why did I, why did I agree to this? And you know, 

Veronica: but moving on the next source of pressure, parents, parents, the pressure that parents put on their children to have kids is so intense that people have had kids just to, and I've spoken to some, just to. Give them their parents grandkids and by 

Rick: the way There's a side note there for me as far as like if I [00:32:00] was a parent, I wouldn't be pressured I would not want I don't want to be a grandparent quickly.

I'm gonna feel old. Well, that's you, babe 

Veronica: Well, I know but like You don't even want to be a parent, never 

Rick: mind being a grandparent I know but Why does someone want to be a 

Veronica: grandparent? No one's saying quickly, no one's saying quickly what happens is everyone's sharing their grandkid photos and people wait for the grandkids to visit that once or twice a year or whatever it is.

And then their parents feel left out because they don't have any photos to show and they don't have like the grandkids visiting at the pool. And it's just all these, like, to me are crazy things. But the conditioning of the parents is so deep, right? Because they themselves have believed that they're, this is what their elder years are going to look like grandkids and the grandkids are going to keep them happy, going to keep them entertained cause they can keep up with them.

So if you've been conditioning to believe that's going to happen to your whole life [00:33:00] and that you have this little. This little community of your family members and their kids and your grandkids and great grandkids Then when if you don't have that option it completely turns your head Upside down like you just don't they don't know how to handle it a lot of that now a lot of parents do know How to handle it they don't apply this pressure, but that's why the pressure keeps applying and also Parents love being really passive aggressive about this stuff just making little comments here and there like Oh, I guess I saw this cute little dress at the store, but I guess I'll never need to buy it for anyone, you know, just like 

Rick: I got lucky I have to give my mom and dad some props to people say props and more.

I have really digging into like this 52 year old archive of old sayings on this podcast. I apologize to everyone. I'll work on updating my vernacular. Um, but I have to give my [00:34:00] parents some love for the fact that They never really pressured me. In fact, my mom understood towards the end. You know, I guess when I got older, she's just like, she, she really got it.

So I'm not 

Veronica: talking about pressure. I'm talking about passive aggressive comments like they're, they'll, it's like when parents say like, I get it, sure, but they can't help themselves for making these little, little tings, you know, little comments. And the problem is that some people. We'll just make these ones in a blue, but sometimes people really make them so often that they really feel like little digs and can make a person feel really crappy about their decision because their parents are constantly reminding them.

So it's very annoying, but 

Rick: give me a piece of advice that you would offer like if, if someone is experiencing a extreme amount of pressure from their parents, which a lot of people are, I mean, that's clear, what is the best way to handle that? 

Veronica: Stop carrying it yourself. You can't carry it. You can't carry [00:35:00] someone else's hopes and dreams and ideas that they had for their future.

Unfortunately, that's each of our jobs to do for ourselves. We can't depend on others to make us happy. But 

Rick: unfortunately, when you, even though you stop caring, it still doesn't turn off the pressure switch from the parents. 

Veronica: No, of course not. You can't change other people. I mean, sometimes people change, but You can completely control.

You can't control their comments and their passive aggressiveness and you can't control their pressure, but you can control how you receive it. You can do with it. 

Rick: Yeah. So you don't think being you should be vocal to your parents about this? 

Veronica: Oh, yeah, but I'm talking beyond babe. Like some people are vocal over and over and over again have it.

The same conversation for years, and the parents are still making these comments. I'm not talking about being silent. I'm talking about, yeah, definitely come to a situation where, but obviously step one, right? You have to be [00:36:00] solid and grounded in your choice before you can have these, these conversations.

Rick: Moving on to pressure point number four. Is that what we're up for? Yeah. Pressure point number four is Sources 

Veronica: of pressure. Yeah. Number four is media, social media, movies, TV, everything, everything that we look tells us that we should be having kids. And it's interesting because we were talking about this inside my program.

We have a private group that we chat in in between our calls. And They were trying to figure out a show or a movie where the child free person stayed child free and was happy and living and thriving as opposed to series or shows where you know, at the end, someone gets pregnant and you have the kid and everybody's happy.

So they were going back and forth on that and having a really hard time in finding anything that [00:37:00] really explained what, um, child free life was all about. I think one of the girls mentioned, um, From, uh, Grey's Anatomy, one of the, uh, I forget her name, but she's child free. And then also, I remember back in the day when I was watching Sex and the City, Samantha Jones was child free.

But the thing about that is that when they do place a child free character in media, there's Always something behind it. Like I remember thinking, you know, it was like, okay, Samantha's child free, but she's also, you know, a business powerhouse. She's traveling. She has tons of money, sexually liberated. And so.

It, it also goes into that idea of, well, if you're not having a kid, then you must be doing something else to make up for it. Right. That's a 

Rick: good point. I feel like, you know, not only just in the media, but even in certain social situations [00:38:00] with family and friends that I have seen that I have seen like, Oh, you know, Veronica doesn't want to have kids.

She's the wild one. You know who I'm talking about. It's just like, it kind of, you get this whole, like you get this whole stigma, like, Oh, she's crazy. She Parties only. She's out for herself. She doesn't care about having kids. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, people are yours or therefore you are quote unquote irresponsible.

And that to me is just unacceptable. Like, it's like, just because you choose this one thing, you just automatically get shoved in this box. It's crazy. 

Veronica: Yeah, of course. You get shoved in the irresponsible and the lack of maturity. You're not an adult yet box, all that kind of stuff. 

Rick: I was thinking of a movie that had such high, I had such high hopes.

I know you're going to say. 

Veronica: Yeah. Yeah. So this is an old movie. I mean, I don't know, 15 years old maybe or something. And I remember the first time watching and thinking, cause not only do they not have kids, but they're not married and, um, and Rick and I are [00:39:00] not married for those of you who do not know, because sometimes people write your husband or your wife on stuff, but we're not officially married.

Uh, but yeah, so we were watching this movie and they weren't married and they were having this great life. And they didn't want kids and then at the end of the movie, they decide to get married and have a baby and now everything's wonderful. So it was just such a disappointment to see that at the very end because it's like the only way to have a fairytale ending is by having a baby.

And essentially that's what A lot of these films tell us and it's, you know, we really do crave seeing more producers and more directors and more actors and more writers getting into the habit of talking about child free people, child free life and telling the story, their stories in a really meaningful way.

And I hope that in the future we see that more and more. 

Rick: I got to bring up something. I just realized something about that [00:40:00] movie. I don't know if you recall, but they got in a fight about Having kids because she decided she wanted one and then they kind of split up and he went to his parents and she went to her parents and then he came back and was just like, okay, well, if you want one, and he made a joke, it was Vince Vaughn.

He was just like, you know, they work as little tax shelters. So why not? So he's trying to justify it. So there was a little of a undertone or overtone there about how like, okay, well, if she really wants one, maybe I can figure out a way to. Just to this new decision just to make her happy. 

Veronica: Yeah, I don't remember.

I don't remember. I 

Rick: don't. She's like, no, I don't. Stop talking about it. No, I get it. I'm just saying 

Veronica: I don't remember because you know I don't remember details and movies. That happened. But yeah, if that happened, yeah, absolutely. So there you go. If any of you listening or watching have examples of movies where There is a child free [00:41:00] hero who does not get pressure, does not succumb to the idea of the only way to be happy is to get married, have kids, and do that whole and check up all those light script boxes, definitely let us know.


Rick: really interesting. And I would actually. I'm pitching this out there right now. I'd like to see a movie where it's completely reversed, right? Where you have a couple, they come together, they meet the whole fairytale that you see in all these rom-coms and romance movies and so on and so forth.

Mm-Hmm? . They plan to have a family, have children, and then throughout the process they decide that they don't wanna have kids together. And so it's like this whole buildup, the parents are excited, they got married, they're gonna have children, they all, everyone's hopes are up. And then they sit there and they say, you know what?

Kids aren't for us. And that's the happy ending. And then they live this incredible happy life without kids. They go riding off into the sunset, like, doing all child free stuff. Like, that'll be a hard 

Veronica: no. Yeah. 

Rick: What do you think? Do you think Hollywood would reject that plot? 

Veronica: No, I think it's, I think [00:42:00] there's a possibility there.

At first, sorry, I was going, I was thinking that. They got pregnant and then they were like forget it and we're not doing this. That's why I was I know I was that's why if I was giving you a 

Rick: confused face during like this whole thing 

Veronica: There's all these little nuances and maybe they don't get married and maybe they're not you know Well, now you're talking 

Rick: about a breakup movie.

I'm talking about, like, they stay together and all these little things enter the, the storyline that caused them to come to this realization that kids aren't for them. And then it's a happy ending. Like, it's this amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, I'll start writing it with the help of ChatGPT. I mean, it wrote an incredible, it wrote a great script too.

Veronica: I think we should turn that into a real You're Fabulous poem. So we don't want people to miss out on 

Rick: that. No, it's exclusive to podcast. 

Veronica: So obviously, um, having said all this stuff that the [00:43:00] pressure can come from, and it comes and goes, right? Sometimes some people don't care at all. Sometimes it just kind of sneaks up on you.

It's very bizarre. But like we said before, the most important thing to do is just to stay focused on yourself and what you want and what you need and what makes you happy. Because once we start focusing on what other people want from us or out of us, it just goes downhill. It gets very complicated. Do you agree?

Rick: completely agree. And, um, I love this topic. It's ongoing topic, obviously, and I'm sure there's a lot of pressure that we did not cover that's out there. So feel free to leave that in the comments on YouTube. Um, if you're watching this, because, um, we can, we can discuss those two, you know, it's a lot. It's a lot.


Veronica: then lastly, I think another tip that's really important is to realize that. You're not alone, because obviously we're here, right? And so is our entire community, and so are millions of other child free people all over the world. Which is part of the reason why we started this podcast, because we [00:44:00] wanted to share what our everyday life was like.

Like, it's just, um, so often times that this is seen as the wrong choice or the bad choice or the worst choice. And that's absolutely not the case. I mean, we talk about it all the time, how extremely happy and grateful we are that we are living a child free life. And please know that if you're experiencing any of these pressures and, but you're really want to live a child free life, just know that there's people doing it out there that are really happy.

Rick: Yeah, and I think, you know, it comes back to what you've said often, which is it's so important as a child free individual to be building your community and surrounding yourself around like minded people that understand this so you can bounce these ideas off. Obviously, you do that program. We do that in our community.

Um, the more people that come in, the more opinions and, and, uh, [00:45:00] And conversations happen. So your voice is needed. And even if you don't, if you're an introvert and you don't feel like you want to engage that much with the community, we have a lot of people that just sit on the sidelines and just kind of listen and take that in.

So it can be helpful whether you're engaged in the community or not. So I just want to throw that out there again, because, um, I have, it has helped me personally, you know, on certain things. Yeah, I 

Veronica: think it's really important. I just talked to the woman that joined the program today, and she was saying that she literally, her last friend who was going to be child free decided to have a baby.

So she literally has no one around who is living a child free life. And that is the case with so many people out there. But yeah, to your point, um, there's millions of us waiting to, uh, waiting to connect with you. So we're 

Rick: excited about that. Yeah, but community again, community, community, community, start building your community.

You will not regret it. I'm 52 as it, I'm so happy. I started this journey three or four years ago, even, but it made me [00:46:00] feel so much more comfortable knowing, you know, that not only does the pressure is relieved, but I'm really feeling like, Oh, I'm not going to be alone. I'm not the only one, you know, all those things you were saying earlier, which, which I just, 

Veronica: all the limiting beliefs.

Yeah. So we, that are forced into our heads that are just absolutely not true. Yes. Yeah. 

Rick: The earlier start, the better. Um, before we close out, I do want to say, I want to thank everyone that reached out to me about the last podcast that me and you both had, you had one before a bonus bonus episode, but the one we had, a lot of people reached out and said that I should go to Disney.

Because we had discussed whether or not a child free person should go to Disney. And, um, everyone was like, yeah, especially in our community. But other people had commented on YouTube that, you know, go to Disney. It's a fun time. So we're going to add that to the bucket list. Not necessarily this year, you know, next year.

But we're going to add 

Veronica: it to the bottom of the 

Rick: bucket list. Bottom of the bucket list that Disney is going to happen. I can't wait to do a whole podcast on my Disney experience. For those who don't know, I've never been to Disney. [00:47:00] And it's one of those things where I'm excited to, to experience. Yeah. But anyway, it was lovely talking to you, uh, once again, and, uh, I look forward to our next chat and, uh, hopefully I won't be as jacked up from my coffee.

Yeah. And I like the wardrobe change. I should. No, I have a wardrobe change. Bye. Now we're both wearing different shirts. Bye. Bye.